37. How to Solve the Hunger Problem

My name is Patrick McGilvray. And I’m an experienced marathoner, ultra runner, Master Life Coach, and weight loss coach for runners. I’ve learned that running more and eating less does not work for weight loss, and that there’s a better way. Now I help runners like you to get leaner and get stronger, so you can run faster and run longer than you ever thought possible. This is Running Lean.

Hey there, and welcome to episode number 37 of Running Lean. My name is Patrick McGilvray, the weight loss coach for runners. And today we are talking about how to solve the hunger problem. So here’s a fact: if you’re trying to lose weight, and you are hungry all the time, this is going to be very difficult for you, you are going to struggle. And this is exactly why most people quit diets, they just can’t deal with that constant, intense feeling of hunger.

So today I’m talking about this problem of hunger and how to solve it. So I’ll explain different types of hunger, how to tell if you’re actually hungry, which foods tend to increase your hunger and which tend to reduce it, and how all of this relates to your running. So that is all coming up momentarily.

And listen, if you’d like this podcast, I hope you do, then you got to come check us out on Facebook, check out the Running Lean community on Facebook. It’s this positive, energetic, fun group of like minded runners like you who share common goals. We all want to lose weight, we want running to be easier. We want to live a healthier life.

Okay, I do weekly live trainings in the Facebook group on a host of different topics like running nutrition, weight loss. This month, we’re talking about intermittent fasting. So I’m doing a lot of in depth talks about that. Here’s a recent comment from one of our members of the Facebook group. Erica, she says, “Okay, so I’m sure you’re still on a Saturday run.” She sent this on a Saturday morning. “But I just have to say that the scale is finally moving in the right direction. And it has nothing to do with exercise because I’ve been sick, and I’ve cut back due to trying not to physically wear myself out again. So thinking about food as my main way to control my weight has been key. I tried too long to connect diet with exercise. And I wound up focusing more on exercise to make up for my bad eating. Not anymore. And I love listening to your podcasts while walking or running. They make the time fly. Thanks again, for all you continue to share. You’re impacting so many lives in a positive way.”

Oh my gosh, Erica, I’m getting all choked up. That was really sweet. And this is my goal. I just want to help people, I want to impact people in a positive way. So thank you so much for saying that, it does make me feel good. Sometimes I feel like I’m just all alone over here. I’m just talking into this microphone. When I get messages like that it does make me feel good, that lights me up.

And you are so right. Exercise is great for a lot of things. But it’s just not a really great way to lose weight. Right. It’s more about the food you eat. And I’m glad that message is resonating with you especially. It’s one of the big reasons why I do what I do. This is why I started this whole Running Lean community in the Running Lean podcast because running you just can’t outrun a bad diet. Right? We’ve heard that a lot.

And we have to focus on nutrition. If we want to get lean, lose weight, feel better, make running easier, get stronger, all that stuff. Okay. So in the Facebook group, we’ve got a big challenge going on this month, I told you it’s intermittent fasting month, over in the Running Lean community on Facebook.

And that does not mean we’re fasting for the entire month of September. No, we’re not doing that. So what we’re talking about is what intermittent fasting is, what it isn’t, and how to do it safely. And the amazing benefits that you can get, especially for long distance running. Right?

There’s so many amazing benefits and if you haven’t checked it out last week, I did a podcast all about the myths and benefits of intermittent fasting you should definitely check that one out. So just go to Facebook, search for Running Lean community and join us. We’d love to have you in there.

Also, figuring out what to eat so you can become fat-adapted, losing weight, becoming that lean running machine. This can all be kind of challenging to do on your own. It typically takes these three things to create lasting change in your life. You need awareness, you need knowledge, and you need support.

And what I try to do with this podcast is I try to provide as much awareness and knowledge as I can. Right? But that personal, ongoing support is something you can only get from one on one, you know. So that’s why I offer one-on-one coaching. Listen, we’re all different. We all have different dietary needs, what works for one person may not work for you.

Working together, you and I, we figure out exactly how to put together a nutrition plan that works for you, that gets you the results that you want, that gets you to your goals. So if you’re ready to make some big changes in your life, if you’re ready to get off the sugar, and those crazy insatiable hunger.

If you’re ready to reap all the amazing benefits of intermittent fasting, if we’re ready to lose weight and feel good while doing it, and not be hungry all the time, then you have to apply for a one on one coaching with me, it’s very easy to do. Just go to innerfiretribe.com/weightlosscoaching, one word, do it now I promise you, it’s worth it.

Alright, let’s talk about hunger. Yay. So how to solve the hunger problem? So first of all, what is hunger? What does this even mean? What are we talking about? So early humans, we were hunter-gatherers, right? We would go and hunt. And we would eat or we would forage for food.

And we would eat, we feasted. And we fasted. I talked a lot about this in the last episode, right? So we would go for long stretches of time, without food, and this was normal. Right? So we would maybe hunt for something, and kill it and then eat it. And then, you know, that would keep us feeling pretty satiated for a few days.

Think about this in the animal kingdom today, most mammals, especially predatory mammals, like think of the lion, right? They hunt, they kill, and then they eat. And they only eat like once or twice a week. Right? This is the way that we evolved as humans. This is the way most animals operate in the animal kingdom, that are predatory animals, omnivores.

And so it was very common for our ancestral human hunter-gatherers, to go for long periods of time without a substantial meal. Right. And this did not impair them mentally or physically. In fact, it had the opposite effect. From a report that I was just reading called meal frequency and timing and health and disease. It says that the ability to function at a high level, both physically and mentally, during extended periods without food may have been a fundamental importance in our evolutionary history.

So meaning that we were not impaired mentally and physically by not eating, in fact, it had some good health benefits to us. So hunger would come on a day or two after we ate, and would signal the animal or the human in this case to go out and hunt or forage to get more food. Right?

We weren’t getting hungry, we didn’t evolve to get hungry every couple of hours. We didn’t evolve eating six meals a day. We didn’t have snacks. Okay, we feasted. And then we fasted. And when we did that, our hunger came on very slowly. So we would feel this urge to go get more food, and then we would eat it, and we would feel satiated. And then we wouldn’t be hungry for a day or two.

When that hunger came on, it would send signals that we need to eat, we need nutrition. And then we would go out and get more food. So this is what hunger is. It’s our body signaling us that we need nutrition, we require it or we will die. Now, today we eat you know, if we feel just a slightest bit hungry, we got to eat something right. This is not the way we evolved to eat though. Okay, so we’ll get into more of that in a second.

Let’s talk about some different types of hunger. First, I want you to understand what we’re talking about when we talk about different types of hunger and what real hunger actually is. So first of all, we have a type of hunger called a craving, right? Have you ever had a craving for something?

So a craving is where you have a real need like you want a specific food, so it might be what do I have a craving for? Chips and guacamole. That does sound good right about now, or I have a craving for Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. That’s a very specific kind of craving, you know, people are like, oh, I have a craving for pizza or french fries, you know, cravings feel urgent, they feel like you have to do something about it right now.

They come on very quickly, and easily pass very quickly, if you don’t do anything about it. This is not real hunger. This is just a craving. And a lot of this is mental. It’s psychological. Right? Another type of hunger is withdrawal, hunger. So this happens, when, for instance, you stop eating sugar, or refined carbohydrates. Obviously, sugar, we’ve talked about this in depth. It’s like other drugs, it’s like alcohol. And when you stop consuming drugs, or alcohol, or sugar, in this case, you may experience some withdrawal symptoms.

So in this case, the withdrawal symptoms are both physical, and mental, and it’s a sensation of ‘I need to eat something right away.’ So it might feel urgent, mentally, and physically, it comes on quickly, again, similar to a craving. But it’s not, it’s not real hunger, it’s because your body is coming off of sugar, carbohydrates.

The next type of hunger I want to talk about is called emotional hunger. And this is when you are bored, or you’re nervous, or you’re anxious, or you want something to do. And this is typically what we call emotional eating. So we’re eating to dull a sensation, to dull an unwanted emotion that we’re having. And emotions are just caused by our thoughts.

So this idea that we’re hungry, and that somehow going to make us feel better, is just a thought in our brain. That’s what emotional eating is. That’s what emotional hunger is, again, this comes on kind of quickly. And again, it just kind of passes away if you don’t do anything about it. This is not real hunger. None of these are real hunger, okay?

These are all just like our body, having addiction or coming off addiction, or not dealing with our emotions, or having a craving for something because we saw a billboard with giant french fries on him. Not real hunger.

So let’s talk about what real hunger is – physical hunger. This is when our body actually requires nutrition, we need food. Now, you’ll usually feel physical hunger only a couple times a day. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. But for the most part, you should only feel real physical hunger once or twice a day. Real physical hunger, it comes on slowly. It comes on gently, kind of like a gentle wave in the ocean. Right?

It typically doesn’t just pass very quickly, but it never feels urgent or terrible. The way you know that you’re really hungry is if a meal sounds good. In other words, if you’re like, you know, a handful of nuts, it’d be good right about now, that’s not real hunger. That’s typically an emotional eating, or a craving, or man, I could really go for some french fries right now that’s, that’s not real hunger.

Real hunger is, man, I could go for a steak and a salad and you know, some broccoli. When a big meal sounds good, then you know you’re actually hungry. Okay, so we have some signals in our body. They’re hormones, and they help to regulate our hunger. So the hormones we’ve talked about, and I’ve talked about a lot on here are insulin, ghrelin and leptin.

So insulin is the hormone that gets secreted when our blood sugars go up. So anytime we eat anything, especially when we eat sugar or carbohydrates, our blood sugars go up quite a lot and we produce insulin. We also have a hormone called ghrelin and ghrelin is produced when our body is actually hungry.

And again, ghrelin should just be produced in very limited quantities, and very slowly to tell us we are hungry so it sends hunger signals to our brain, so we eat something and we don’t die. Then we have a hormone called leptin. Leptin tells us when we are full and and when we eat food, leptin kicks in and says, you know, you’ve had enough broccoli and steak, I think you’re good and then we stop eating.

Now when insulin is super high, by eating a high carbohydrate diet, it messes up the production of ghrelin and leptin, you over produce ghrelin, so you feel hungry all the time, and you under produce leptin, so you feel you don’t feel full. So when you’re eating a diet high in carbohydrates, sugar is a carbohydrates, just a very refined carbohydrate.

So high in carbs, high in sugar, then insulin is always elevated, your body is in this mode of holding on to fat, which is not good. You’re more hungry, and you don’t feel full when you do eat. So this is a terrible combination of hormone activity in your body. Okay, so when you’re eating a diet high in carbohydrates, you are going to feel terribly hungry all the time.

So a low fat, low calorie, high carbohydrate diet makes you feel hungry, this diet, eating this kind of food will increase your hunger when you’re eating a lot of bread and pasta, and a lot of fruit and drinking a lot of you know, sports drinks with a lot of sugar in it. You’re eating all these sports goos and things like that, when you’re running.

Insulin is going to be high all the time this suppresses leptin and interferes with ghrelin, you are going to be abnormally hungry all the time. Eating a high carb diet increases your appetite and makes you hungry.

This is why restaurants really push appetizers, especially a bunch of carby appetizers, like they’ll just stick a basket of bread in front of you and say, oh yeah, here just eat as much bread as you want while you’re waiting or while you’re deciding on what you’re going to eat. Because when you start eating bread, especially carbs, or appetizers, especially high carb appetizers, it actually makes you hungrier.

Restaurants know this, they know that if they can get people to eat some carbs before they order their food, they order more food, and they eat more of their main course. But you think we probably think that if we eat some appetizers, we won’t eat as much at our meal. But the opposite is actually the case, people order more food.

So eating these high carb appetizers, and just next time you go to restaurant, check out the appetizers and you’ll notice a theme. Everything’s got a ton of carbs in it, right? Especially when they just dropped that bread basket right there. Which don’t get me wrong, I used to love the bread basket. Now, I do not eat bread. Bread is really. There’s so many bad things. I’m gonna do a whole podcast episode on bread, because bread is like the worst thing you can be eating.

I know it’s delicious. I know it is. But really, it’s not good. You guys hate me sometimes. First, I take away fruit and I’m taking away bread and you’re just like, who is this guy? Alright, so the wrong diet, the wrong food will make you hungrier. So this is lots of sugar and lots of carbs, it makes you hungrier. Now, the right type of food, the right diet should reduce your hunger.

So when we switch over to a low carbohydrate, high fat diet, this is a diet that keeps insulin levels low, normal. It normalizes these hormones, right? Then ghrelin and leptin work the way they’re supposed to. So you’re only hungry when you’re really physically hungry, which is very, not as often as you would think. When you do eat, you feel more for you to eat to satiety, so you eat until you feel for.

And then because you’re eating good types of food with nutrient dense types of food with good fats. You won’t be hungry for a long time. The high fat part of the diet really helps with hunger because you feel full for way longer.

And this is basically what our human ancestors ate for millions of years. Think about it. They ate meat with a lot of fat. They went especially for the fattest parts of the animal. They ate some vegetables. Yes, very few though. There just wasn’t a lot of vegetables available. And they ate seasonally and low, whatever they could find.

They ate very little fruit and the fruit that they ate was not sweet at all, not like it is today. They weren’t eating refined sugars or carbs. And so they would eat and they would feel so full and satiated and then they wouldn’t need to eat for a couple of days, which is I think, really cool. And we can do the same kind of thing.

Now, I’m not suggesting you don’t eat meat for a couple of days at a time. But um, you know, you can go longer periods of time without food, which is an amazing place to get to. And think about, like, you know, predatory animals today like a lion, you know, they get very full, because they basically eat a low carb, high fat diet, right.

And they don’t need to eat again for days. And I know we’re not lions, I’m just trying to say that, like mammals eat this way, most of them. So here’s another thing I want to talk about. So the types of food you eat is very important. But even if you’re eating a low carb, high fat diet, there’s times where you might experience a little bit of hunger, okay?

We think that being hungry is somehow a problem. If we ever feel the least bit of hunger, we get that little signal, maybe a little belly grumbling or something like that. We’re like, oh, my God, I’m so hungry, I can’t concentrate, my blood sugars are going to be too low, I’m running low on energy, I’m gonna pass out. And like we got to do something about it right now. Right?

This is really not something we have to like, it’s not an emergency. Okay, being hungry is not really an issue. It’s not a problem. You know, real hunger is an important signal that we should eat. But it’s almost never an emergency, especially we’re talking about here in the Western world where we have access to food all the time, you’re not going to starve to death, you’re not going to die.

Okay, unless you haven’t eaten for days, and days and days, you won’t die from being a little bit hungry. In fact, I talk about this guy who holds the world record for fasting, his name is Angus Barbieri. And he is a Scottish dude who weighed like 467 pounds or something like that. And he fasted for 382 days.

So he lived off of his own body fat, he had to, you know, drink water, obviously, and take electrolytes and some vitamins. And he had doctor’s supervision through this. And he was drinking coffee and stuff like that. But basically, no food and he lived off his own body fat for over a year. And he was fine. He didn’t die.

He ended up weighing, like 180 pounds or something like that, when all was said and done. So anyway, the point is that you can live off your own body fat, and when you do feel a little bit of hunger, if you’re trying to lose weight.

And you’re starting to feel a little bit hungry, and it’s that gentle hunger, it’s actually kind of a good signal to you, like think about it as like, Oh yeah, I’m burning fat on my body and can actually use my own fat for fuel. So it’s not a it’s not a problem.

And, and being a little hungry every now and then. Maybe it’s just something you have to accept as just being okay. You know, I’m not talking about being like ravishing, ravishingly hungry or starving, like these are unhealthy states to be in. But I guarantee you, if you’re listening to this podcast, then you don’t have to worry about starving to death, I guarantee you that.

So if you find yourself if you are eating a low carb, high fat diet, and you do find yourself getting hungry between meals, here’s what I suggest you do. Nothing. Just don’t do anything about it. Just allow it to be there. Allow that feeling to kind of be there. It’s not a problem, really, it’s just a feeling.

And you’ll probably be eating in an hour or two anyway. So it’s not an emergency, you will be fine. You won’t die. Remember, Angus, he didn’t die. One of my clients started using that as a hashtag. I think it’s fabulous. He didn’t die. If it’s true hunger, it will come on slowly, like a gentle wave that won’t feel urgent.

And you can just like let it be there and it’ll kind of pass. Right? The main reason we feel hungry all the time. And it feels urgent because we’re eating food that makes us feel that way. When you change your diet, when you switch to a low carb high fat diet, the hunger problem is basically solved.

Alright, I’m going to talk about a concept that I think is pretty interesting. And this is a concept I call hunger matching. So hunger matching is basically you have this sort of biological function in your body that says every time around the time you normally eat, you’re going to be hungry.

So let’s say you normally eat three meals a day, 8am, 12 noon, and 7pm. Over time, your body’s going to expect to be fed at those three times. So ghrelin will kind of be produced at those times. And you will start to feel more hungry at eight, noon and 7pm. I know this was recently my friend was hanging out at my friend’s house and his dog started freaking out. And I’m like, what’s the dog freaking out about and he’s like, oh, it’s dinnertime, the dog knows what time dinner is, even though he doesn’t tell time that we know of.

But he has this like biological sensor that knows, hey, it’s time to eat. Okay, so the dog doesn’t freak out two hours before it’s time to eat, or an hour afterwards. But like, right at that time, it’s pretty fascinating. But we do the same thing. So we have this internal biological function that says it’s time for you to eat.

So if you’re eating six times a day, which some people recommend you do, which I think is ridiculous, and stupid, and I don’t think this is a good is the exact opposite of what you want to do, by the way. But if you eat six times a day, then you will be hungry six times a day, you’re basically always going to be hungry from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed.

Do you want to live your life that way? I say no. Over time, let’s say you switch to eating twice a day, which is what I kind of recommend for most people, you’re only going to feel hungry around those two times a day. And it might take a few weeks for you to get used to this new like feeding schedule.

But basically, hunger should only appear around those couple of times a day where you normally eat. So your hunger, the feeling of hunger kind of matches, when you typically eat. Think about the freedom that comes with only being hungry once or twice a day. And knowing that it’s real hunger, like this is so amazing.

Alright, let’s talk about running a little bit. So running actually makes you hungry. Did you know that you probably didn’t know that exercise increases your appetite. And again, this is an evolutionary thing that is good. It’s a good system to have in place. So you exercise, and your body says, hey, you’ve just expelled a bunch of energy, you know, you burned a lot of fat or calories, we need to replace that.

So hormones will kick in and your appetite will go up, the ghrelin gets increased. And so after you exercise, then hunger becomes increased. And this is what our hunter gatherer ancestors did, you know, they would go on this hunt, which would build up their appetite. And their hunger would increase as they were out there, hunting down this animal or chasing it down or whatever they did. And then they would eat and feel satiated, right?

So the exercise increases your hunger. Right. And if we didn’t get hungry, when we exercise, we would have just been extinct a long time ago, because our bodies wouldn’t have any way of knowing that, hey, we need to replace some of this fuel that we just used up here. Okay. But think about this, the whole calories in calories out thing.

It doesn’t work for this very reason right here because when you burn calories, when you go and run, your body sends signals that you have to replace those calories right away. Your body is always trying to get back to homeostasis to neutral to baseline. And so your body has these systems in place to replace those calories.

It will increase your appetite and most runners what happens is you go for a long run, you come back you eat a bunch of food, lots of carbs, usually. And you sort of overcompensate so runners tend to actually eat more when they run more.

This is why it’s so hard to lose weight while you’re running a lot. And a lot of people have trouble losing weight when they’re like training for a marathon, which is bananas, right? It’s like why am I gaining weight when I’m training for this marathon? It’s because your body is saying you need more food. And of course you’re listening to your body.

So you burn all these calories and your hunger goes up like crazy. You eat a ton of food. And let’s be honest, here’s what runners eat. They eat doughnuts, cereal, pancakes, drink a lot of beer. They’re taking in these goos and gels, energy bars, pizza pasta, all the carbs. Runners tend to be carb addicts, right? They just have this idea of like I can just eat whatever I want because I run.

This is actually a recipe for metabolic disaster though. You have to switch over to a low carb diet. And then when you run you are actually being fueled by your own body fat which is amazing, so many amazing benefits to that. And it doesn’t upregulate your hunger quite as much. But when you do eat after a long run, so I might come home from a long run, and I usually wait an hour or two after I run to eat anyway, because I’m not that hungry, and I come home and then I’ll eat a low carb meal, you know, bacon and eggs and avocado or something like that.

And it doesn’t pack on the fat that that fuel is going right back into my, into my body to be used properly. And I’m not just storing all this extra carbs as fat, right? So very important thing to understand. And I know people have issues, or concerns about doing these long distance runs, and not eating enough food, like you know, what happens if I’m hungry, you know, should I be eating for running? Don’t need the calories doing the fuel.

Here’s the thing, you really don’t, if you’re fat adapted, if you’re off the sugar and the carbs, you got plenty of fuel on board. Earlier this year, in May, there was an ultra runner named Mike McKnight. And he ran 100 miles without consuming any calories during the run.

So he was out there for like, almost 19 hours running. And he didn’t have any calories before, during. And if you asked him, you know, man wasn’t this hard? He was like not really, it was actually kind of enjoyable. So he’s the fat adapted athlete, he trains very low carb. And he incorporates intermittent fasting.

So he’s running on his own body fat, and he can do these amazing long distance events without any food, like he just doesn’t get hungry. Because your body is getting what it needs is getting the nutrients it needs from your own body fat. Now there’s an important thing I need to point out, you need to be fat adapted before you go and try to run 100 miles with no calories, right? Your own fat is an amazing source of fuel for long distance running, it’s amazing.

And this is why we want to become fat-adapted. So we can use our own body fat for fuel. So how to fuel these runs, like if you’re gonna go out and do five, six miles, I suggest don’t eat anything. You know, if you get to the point where you’re running, where you are fat adapted, and you’re running for two, three hours at a time or more.

And then you start to actually feel really hungry when you’re out there, then eat some food, you know, eat something and it’s totally fine. But just know that you shouldn’t be eating like for energy, you won’t need to eat for energy you want to eat because I’m getting a little hungry, you might need a little bit of fuel.

And in that case, you can do like a little bit of fat protein, which will give you the kind of energy that you actually want, you don’t need to do the goos and stuff like that. I’m already up to about two and a half hours of running with zero calories, no calories before, during or after running. And I’m just not hungry. And I’m doing fine.

You know, 16 miles was where I’m at right now. And I’m just trying to, you know, keep going, I want to see what I can do. I want to see how good I can get at running on my own fat. It’s pretty fascinating. And trust me, I’m pretty lean, but I still got plenty of body fat to use as fuel. And I eat fat. I eat a high fat diet.

And so I’m replacing that fat in my diet. And I can use that for fuels too, as well. So it’s awesome. So I’m just getting good at listening to my body. I’m only eating when I’m genuinely hungry. And I suggest you start listening to your body to Okay, so the bottom line for eating and running is like if you’re genuinely hungry, eat something.

But for the most part, if you’re fat adapted, you shouldn’t really need to eat much unless you’re doing some very long distance type stuff. All right, so just a quick recap here. How do we solve the hunger problem? Well, first of all, become fat adapted, stop eating the carbs. Start eating more fat. And when you do this, your hormones will begin to reset. You’ll know what real hunger feels like. You know, you’ll know the difference between a craving and withdrawal, that emotional hunger that stuff will all kind of fade away.

Eat only a couple times a day. You don’t eat six times a day, you don’t need snacks, and your hunger will begin to match the times that you eat. If you do get hungry between meals, it’s not an emergency. You don’t have to get in, get into that feeling. It’s just a feeling. Allow it to be there and it’s going to be okay.

When you do run, you don’t need to overcompensate by eating doughnuts and pizza and beer. You know, don’t load up on carbs after you run. You’ll be fine. And just practice not eating before, during and after running and see how it goes for you. Right do these things and hunger will never be a problem for you again, Mischief Managed.

Alright, we’re going to be talking more about solving this hunger problem over in the Facebook group, especially how to manage hunger when you begin your intermittent fasting journey. So being hungry when you first get off the sugar and carbs, that withdrawal type stuff, it can feel a little overwhelming for people.

So I’m going to be offering some tips on how to alleviate the hunger and getting through those first few weeks of intermittent fasting. And then over the course of the next few weeks, we’re going to be talking more about intermittent fasting. You know, what do we do about electrolytes?

How do we curb the cravings between meals? We’ll be talking about training in the fasted state more, and some of the other types of fasting, and just really what it takes to become fat adapted as a runner, because this is like one of the best things you can do for yourself. So join us over in the Running Lean community on Facebook, and see what it feels like to not eat all the time. See how much better running can be. Alright, that’s all I got for you today. Lots and lots of love to each and every one of you, my friends, keep on Running Lean, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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