1. Caroline Keating on Running Through Tough Stuff in Life and Squashing Negative Self Talk

Patrick McGilvray
My name is Patrick McGilvray, and I’m an experienced marathoner, ultra runner, running coach and mindset expert. I believe mindset is the most powerful and most underrated tool you have as a runner. So I’ve devoted my life to helping runners like you develop the mindset you need to fuel your inner fire and become the badass runner you were meant to be. This is The Running Mind podcast.

Hey there, and welcome back to The Running Mind podcast. My name is Patrick McGilvray. I am your host. And today I have a very cool, very deep conversation with Caroline Keating. And she shares some things in this conversation that she’s never shared before. She talks about her competitive background, she was a competitive swimmer in college, and how that applies and has kind of shaped her today.

She talks about how she really feels about running, she talks about how running has helped her move through some really tough stuff. You know, sometimes we experience heartbreak in our life, we lose people, and how running can help us keep going and move on and move through that and get past it. Really good stuff there, for sure.

But one of the things she talks about in this interview, is this idea of like not believing in yourself and actually having a kind of a negative view of yourself, negative self-talk in how it can profoundly affect you. And some things that she’s done to change that, you know how she finally started to shift that and started believing in herself. It’s a very powerful conversation here. Lots of lots of good stuff here.

I wanted to just touch on that negative self talk for a moment, though. Because our thoughts create our reality. You know, the way we think about ourselves, the way we think about other people, the way we think about the world creates the reality that we live in. So when you constantly are thinking negative and doing this negative self-talk about yourself, what kind of reality do you think you’re creating when you do that?

And it’s interesting, because when I asked my clients, I say like, you know, okay, I understand you, you say that you’re not a runner, you’re not a good runner, you’re terrible at running hills, or whatever the negative self-talk might be at the moment. And say, would you say that about somebody else? Of course not.

Of course, I would never say that to somebody else, because it’s not the truth. Well, it’s not the truth about you, either. But why do we talk to ourselves in a way that we would never talk to our friends or family? It’s interesting, isn’t it. So I want you to do something, I want you to catch yourself when you find yourself saying anything negative about yourself. When you look at yourself in a negative light, I want you to try to stop it, try to catch yourself and just stop for a moment and change it to something positive.

In fact, a little exercise you can do is when you find yourself saying something negative about yourself or thinking something negative about yourself. Instead, say three positive things about yourself, find three things that you can say about yourself, three positive things that you can say about yourself. And when you do that, you’re going to start creating better habits around self talk.

So instead of, you know, I, I’m terrible at running hills, it could be you know, I’m strong. I’m a strong runner. You know, I can take this house, I’m great at running hills, when you start to do that, it actually changes the way you feel about yourself. It changes the results that you get. If you want to be better at running hills, you know two things you can do. Number one, change the way you’re talking about it, and maybe run some more hills. Practice that a little bit.

But as you do this, as you start creating more positive self-talk, you start creating new habits and a new reality. If our thoughts create a reality, what’s the reality that you want to create? And if it’s a negative reality, why would you do that? Why would you want to create that when you have other options available to you? Start creating a better, more positive reality and start creating a better, more positive view. Okay.

That’s all I wanted to say about that. This is something that you can practice again, just find yourself, catch yourself saying these things and change it, find some positive things to say about yourself instead. Cool. Awesome.

Well, let’s get into this interview with Caroline Keating right now. All right, so today I’m joined with Caroline Keating, weekend warrior, Boston qualifier, and all around badass runner. Caroline, thanks for being here.

Caroline Keating
Thanks for having me.

Patrick McGilvray
And I want to hear about your journey. And so take me back to when you started running late. What got you into running in the first place?

Caroline Keating
Well, I was a competitive swimmer in college. And I had a really fantastic junior year. And then my senior year, I had some big goals and I got hurt. I finished the season and I still finished the season pretty well. But shoulder surgery was looming in the future.

And so I had shoulder surgery right after college. And then I tried to get back in and train again. And my dad and I always swam in the alumni meet around Christmas time. So I was like secretly training. And I went to swim in this race and race him and he beat me. And I was like, that’s it. I’m giving up my swimming career.

So he was the one that actually kind of pushed me into running, he had run Boston in ‘95. So he, he kind of was like, you know, I want to run another marathon where you train and run another marathon with me. So I did. So we trained for my very first marathon, which was Columbus 2008 together, it was the coolest thing.

I am one of five kids. And I feel like I’m always gonna have that in my back pocket. And none of my siblings will, like, you know, running with folks for 20 miles side by side, you really get to know them in a different way. So it was really fun. And so he wanted to do this like run, walk plan. So we ran three minutes and walked 30 seconds the whole marathon, I actually left him at the halfway. He used to tell people that she just dropped me, we are together and she just dropped me. But so I finished Columbus in like 3:57 maybe, and loved it. And I was like, I’m gonna do this again. So I signed up quickly for an X race.

And my dad’s like, let’s go to Boston together. So I had this goal of Boston in the back of my head, and I just being the arrogant college athlete, I was like, this will be easy. I’ll qualify for Boston. And so that was the goal. And I just, I just kept running.

Patrick McGilvray
I want to go back to something though. Because you kind of glossed over one thing you said like you were swimming in college, and then your dad’s like, Hey, you should run. And so you went and trained for and ran a marathon. Most people don’t do that. Did you do other runs? Like, did you like to start out with 5k’s or 10k’s or something like that? Or did you just go like, I’m just gonna run a marathon?

Caroline Keating
No, we, growing up we always ran the Thanksgiving Day race as a family. Like I remember running it with my cousins. And you know, like sliding through the water stops because there’s ice everywhere and not really taking it seriously. And then nobody could walk to Thanksgiving dinner that night.

So I kind of did some of that stuff through high school. And then I actually ran the Flying Pig. No, I think I ran the Mini Heart. And then I ran maybe the Flying Pig half in 2007. And then in 2008 is when I actually ran the first marathon. But it was funny because my younger brother was a college runner, he ran cross country and track for Xavier for two years. So he was always like kind of had that in the back of his mind and pushed me a little bit to do it. But then also told me that if I wasn’t running under 6:30 pace the miles and count so.

Patrick McGilvray
So a more competitive family for sure.

Caroline Keating
I’m slightly, slightly competitive.

Patrick McGilvray
So we just have this like, in us, like kind of ingrained in you, you know, from your family that you wanted to accomplish big things, you know, so you set your goals for Boston. And so then what happened?

Caroline Keating
So well, like I said, kind of the first marathon I trained with my dad and then I joined Bob Rocker’s running groups, which is where I met like you and a lot of other folks in the writing community in Cincinnati. And just kind of was naive and just ran and didn’t really know any better.

And would be a little bit disappointed after every time I ran a marathon like flow light in my qualify, like what happened? When I would say maybe like 2016 is when I got more serious about it. And really, like, started thinking about, like, what nutrition I need to be taking? And what does training actually look like? Training is different for everybody, should I be doing higher mileage, more speed work? What do I need to be doing?

And what was hard is a lot of the girls that I was running with, were just talented runners. And so they went out to qualify for Boston. And they did it in their first try, or their second try. And that got a little frustrating. But I kind of being the stubborn person that I am, I just kept putting my head down and like trying to figure it out and just kept training.

And then I remember putting in like a ton of work and ran to run Erie. And I guess it was like 2016. And about six weeks before that marathon I had had really great build up. I was training really well, Carrie Lee, one of the local stars and running was helping me and other badass runner, another badass. Somebody also that like teaches you to stick to your goals, no matter how many times you fail, like never change your goal.

But so six weeks before the race, my dad was actually diagnosed with cancer. And so he was kind of my main driver for wanting to do Boston. And it was interesting because he was at the track running because he was like, I thought you were gonna get back in shape and qualify for Boston, and I wanted to go with you. And so he fell at the track. And that’s actually what took him to the hospital and ultimately found out his cancer diagnosis.

So I was like really emotional going up to this marathon. And felt like everything was going to come together. And in retrospect, I probably shouldn’t have gone. I wasn’t in the right headspace to do it. And I remember, I didn’t qualify, I have no idea what I ran, I finished. But I remember driving back and crying the entire way back. Just feeling like nothing was going right. It didn’t matter how hard I tried.

Maybe my goals were too high. I just wanted to bring good news back to my family and I disappointed them again. And I got back and I went to a family dinner that night. And I remember, I have a picture, I think my dad came down wearing his Boston Marathon jacket from ‘95. And he was like, I was gonna give you this jacket, but you’re just not fast enough.

So, but it kind of like put it back into the perspective like, this is what we do for fun. And it’s fun to have those goals and it’s not going to be easy. And you can keep doing it. My dad always told me that like, once I realized how good I was, I would really be great. And so he kind of like, you know, I felt like I was disappointing him by not qualifying and he didn’t feel that way at all. So I told him I was like, I’m gonna train and you’re gonna get treatment, and around the Flying Pig and qualify, and you’re going to be there to see me do it. And so while he was getting treatment, I would drive into treatment once a week. And I would talk to him about my running and like how much I was doing, and you’d give me advice on what he thought I should do.

He was really big into going to the track and doing mile repeats, which I never did. I hated that. But then I remember running the mini heart. And it was right around the time where he got he was getting really sick at that time. And I ran like my best half marathon time ever. And so I came back. And I showed him my splits. And he was studying it.

And I was like Dad, you know, if you use the rule of doubling your half and adding 5 to 10 minutes, like your marathon PRs and question forget about the Boston time, like, I’m gonna break your marathon time. And he smiled and yeah. And so then when he passed away, I was like, I have to, I have to keep running.

I remember texting my coach that morning, or right after my dad passed away like that afternoon and I was like, I missed my run yesterday. I’m going to run this evening like what workout should I do tomorrow? And she was like the best person to be in my life at that time because she didn’t think that was crazy. She just kind of was like, Okay, you need to keep moving forward. This is where you’re, you know, feeling better about everything that’s going on.

And so I remember running the day after my dad passed away, and I kind of was like, didn’t really feel like doing a workout and just ran from my house in Hyde Park, and ran like past St. Ursula, and then kept going to Eden Park. And then Eden Park, I ran into my niece and nephew, who was there with their nanny.

And the crazy thing is like, they never went there. And I just remember one of the last things my mom said before my dad passed away was like, watch over these babies. And I knew in that moment, like something just drew me to run to Eden Park. And so I did and then when I saw them, it was kind of that moment that I was like, I knew this was the right thing. And I knew my dad was still going to be with me. I’ve never actually told them the story.

And so, yeah, so I just kind of like I think people thought I was crazy to like, want to train that much. My dad was sick, and also continue to train after he passed away. But it was something that like we connected on, and I just wanted to keep doing it. So yeah, so that’s what kind of took me to the Pig in 2017. When I find that qualified.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah. So I mean, you had a few years there where it was. It was tough for you, you know, and I know the last couple of years you did qualify in 2017. Yeah. But kind of what happened?

Caroline Keating
Yeah, so I showed up to run. And two of the guys, Brian and Kevin Peter. So they’re gonna run with me, Brian O’Connor and Kevin. Okay. And Kevin Peter. And I remember getting to the start line. And then Peter asking me like, if I was ready, and I was like, I don’t really want to be here. Because it was like, it was gonna be bittersweet if I qualified. And he was like, well, you just have to show up.

And from that moment, like, the whole race, I felt like I was brain dead. Like I had gone through so many emotions over the last seven months with my dad, that I couldn’t think I couldn’t get in my own way. I just was showing up. And it was incredible. Like the city of Cincinnati came out so well for me that day, like I saw familiar faces the entire way. I felt like the city was behind me.

And when I qualified, Rick Lucan was actually at the finish line. And he gave me this big hug. And he, he kind of like, he talked about it. He hugged me awkwardly long, but he knew that I was gonna, like, break down. But I kind of just knew that like, my dad was there. Like, I didn’t need to call him like he knew he was there. He got to see me do it.

So yeah, so it was a great day. And then fast forward, you know, once you qualify for Boston, that just allows you to sign out. And so I signed up in September. And then a week after I signed up, I got the letter from Boston saying that I didn’t get in because of the, you know, they ranked everybody off. Yeah, yeah.

And it brought back all of those emotions from the last seven months, and kind of put into my head, like, will I ever be able to do it again, because I was brain dead. And my biggest problem with running was always getting in my own way, talking myself out of it. And so I was like, my dreams of Boston are over. It was devastating. But luckily, you know, I went to Kara Boucher’s retreat, I surrounded myself with some really great people. I ended up getting a charity bib, I raised $10,000 for 261 Fearless, which is an organization that, you know, supports women in sport, which is something my dad was passionate about, and I got to run Boston. But I knew I always wanted to go back. So that’s been the goal the last couple of years is to try to get back to Boston.

Patrick McGilvray
So, I mean, an amazing journey so far. You know, and I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying, you know, my dad passed away in 2010. And he actually came out to visit me not maybe six months before he died, and he saw me run the Pig. So he got to see me run a marathon, which he thought was amazing. And I got to see him at the finish line.

And just to have that moment with him and see his face and give him a hug and, and I don’t know, I just felt like I did my dad proud, you know, and I showed up and I did something really hard. I did my best. And I know in that moment, he was just super proud of me. And then it was just a few months later. So that was like, what May? And then like in August, he passed away. So it was so meaningful and powerful to like, have him here for that. So I get it, you know, I know how that is. But so, you know, you finally qualify for Boston then you didn’t get in. So how I mean, jeez, that’s, it’s gotta be hard. It’s got to be really frustrating.

Caroline Keating
Yeah, it was, it’s one of the only times I’ve cried at work. It just brought back like, oh, like, I don’t know, I could talk for hours about Boston qualifying standards and charity bibs, and like all the arguments that everybody goes through every year. But it’s also what makes the race special, like they raise a ton of money every year for charity, and you have to run a qualifying time to get in.

Like, it’s one of the only marathons that has that. And so, I know, looking back, I kind of joke that like, I knew my dad wasn’t going to make it easy for me, he was always putting me up for a challenge, you know, and then I, I ended up running in 2018, when there was like the horrible library, pouring down rain and 40 mile an hour headwinds and 30 degrees. And but it, you know, you, I’ve learned that like, nothing is thrown at you that you can’t handle in the moment, sometimes it feels like your whole world is collapsing.

And some people that aren’t runners and don’t have that goal or like, it’s easy for them to qualify for Boston may not understand what that felt like. But I get it like I get it. When that email comes in you for a moment you let Boston Marathon Association define who you are. And you’re not at the end of the day, you’re still a Boston qualifier, whether you get in or don’t.

And so it took me a while to kind of, you know, I ran Chicago a couple weeks after that, and like stopped in the middle of the race and almost dropped out just because I let it get to me, I let it get to my head and kind of redefine who I knew I was. Yeah, it’s really hard. But I’ve moved on from there. I’ve learned but I can’t let other people define who I am or what I’m going to be.

Patrick McGilvray
Absolutely, absolutely. And when you go after a goal like this, and you don’t reach it, it does not mean you have failed, it means you didn’t reach that goal. It also doesn’t mean anything about you. It doesn’t mean anything other than you know, you didn’t. The clock, the time on the clock was different than what you were hoping it was going to be.

And I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in what these things mean, you know, oh, I’m I’m a Boston qualifier, or I’m not. And that means that I’m, you know, a failure, or a success or a badass, or I’m a loser, you know, whatever. And I think if we just stop for a minute, and think about why we do what we do, you know, why are we running? It’s not because we want to be, you know, we might want to be a Boston qualifier. But that’s not the bigger reason, you know, you’ve kind of alluded to some of these things in talking about your dad and your family and stuff. So, you know, what is that for you? What does that bigger thing like? Why do you do this? Why push yourself?

Caroline Keating
It’s a good question. Because sometimes I question myself on it. Um, I think I got into it, because I had been an athlete my whole life. Like, I always set goals, I always had something to work to, I love the structure of it. I love pushing myself to see, you know what’s different. But I think what’s changed for me over the last year and a half, is that it’s not, it doesn’t matter, like you’re saying like, what your finish time is or how many races you’ve run or whatever, it’s, it’s proving to yourself that you can do something and going out and doing it and making a commitment and being selfish and putting time for yourself.

You know, like I see a lot of the girls that I’ve run with over the years, you know, they’ve had kids and it’s hard for them to get out and run and I love it when they take the time and they do it. And you can tell there’s a part of them that, you know, feels like they’re letting their families down because they’re going out and being selfish for an hour. But it’s so important for everybody to do that.

And so yeah, so that’s kind of like, for me, that’s what I’ve really enjoyed. And over the last like year and a half, I feel like I’ve started running with newer people and trying to get I don’t know trying to get them in to fall in love with the sport, regardless of how fast they are, how slow they think there are, if they’re only going to run a 5k and not a full marathon or whatever they’re going to do. It’s just your finished time again, it doesn’t matter. It’s just about proving something to yourself and being accountable to yourself.

Patrick McGilvray
I love that. Yeah. Do you love it? Do you love running? Do you love the sport?

Caroline Keating
Oh, yeah. I’m obsessed with it. I, yeah, I follow like all of it. I follow all the trail runners. I like all this stuff that’s been going on the news recently with like, the doping and the shoes and like, yeah, I love it. But I love like, I had a college teammate that reached out to me in the spring. And she wanted to get back after having two kids and run the Queen Bee.

And I helped her put a plan together. And she ran her best time prior to even having kids. And so it was like, so fun to see how excited she was. And that’s what I love most about it, like, so I always am like asking people at work like you want to run you want to do this, because like, they’ll say I signed up for this race. They’re like, well, let’s run and they’re like, but you’re too fast. And like, it doesn’t matter. Like if I had a workout or needed to do something like I wouldn’t ask you to run with you that day. Like, I just love seeing people get into it. And you know, being there for themselves and setting goals.

Patrick McGilvray
I was just talking to somebody the other day about this, like helping someone reach their goal as a runner is so satisfying and so much fun. Like just whether you’re, you know, just coaching someone, or you’re pacing them during the race, or just running them in the last few miles or something like that, just to help them accomplish it. Because I know what it was like when I first started. And when I ran my first marathon, I crossed that finish line. And I was like, Holy crap, that was super hard. And when can I do this again? It was amazing. The feeling was amazing. It was really like one of those life changing moments for me.

So if I could be a pacer, and run people in their races for the rest of my life, that would be like a dream job. I joke all the time that that’s like, I’m really good at that. I I know what to say. I you know, I don’t know. I’m not good for myself to do that. But I’m good with other people.

Patrick McGilvray
It’s quite it is that is. Let’s talk about that for just a second. Like why do you think that is? I heard you say something about that. Like, I think there’s some like the negative voices in your head. Yeah, get to you. How do you, well, how do you deal with that? Like, what do you do when that happens? Because you’ve gotten better with that, right?

Caroline Keating
I have gotten better. Okay, um, I think one one piece that I’ve changed over the last year is I went I had a quad injury causing me pain in December. So I didn’t run for like six weeks. And my cousin is a yoga instructor. She owns Peaceful Monkey, in Cincinnati and Newtown. And she teaches this like movement class, which for me, I call it monkey class, because we just like, you just move and have fun and play.

And so she invited me to come. She’s like, we can change stuff around if you need to, for your knee, but I think it’d be good for you. So I came in, you know, you have her husband comes who’s not super athletic, but he’s there doing it. You know, she’s a certified yoga instructor and is like, just fit and super strong and extremely motivating.

And then you have like, some, like sixty year old woman there who can hold a handstand for a minute. And so you have like all kinds of different people. But she’ll have you do things like dribble a tennis ball with your hands and feet, and she’ll demonstrate and you’re, you know, you’re like, Oh, this is easy. And then you try and you can’t do it.

And she’ll say like watch what you’re saying to yourself, and you don’t realize it but like you’re getting frustrated at yourself because you can’t dribble a tennis ball with your left hand. Like when in your life have you ever dribbled a tennis ball as well with your left hand? Like, be kind to yourself, like, it’s okay to struggle.

And then like, you know, a couple of weeks go by, and now you can do it. And I think that like little bit of pausing of just like catching her, like saying that, to me, was super helpful and like changing my mindset because then I noticed myself doing it on runs, like, I’d be doing a workout and I wouldn’t feel the greatest, or I miss set or wrapped.

And that normally would like defeat me. And then I’m like, What am I saying to myself, like, you can do this? Why are you doing this? What’s the reason for it? What’s the purpose of this? And kind of start changing that. But I think the other big thing for me is, so, two weeks ago, I qualified for Boston again, which is something that I didn’t think I’d do this year. I ran grandma’s in June, and had a less than stellar race again, great build up. I’m like, the best build up of a marathon ever, but actually could never pull a marathon together.

And so, you know, driving back, I was like, I’m, I’m done. I’m done running marathons, I need to take a break. But I love the training. So I was like, Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go to the ultra world. Like I’ve never run on trails, but I’m gonna sign up for a trail race. So I signed up for a 50k and a 50 miler. And so I’ve just been running all summer, I joined a different running group, you know, just a different change of pace. And not taking anything too seriously.

But I was getting in like some pretty solid weeks, I think I ran three, three weeks prior to Indy I did like 70 plus miles each week. So I had some solid knowledge. Yeah. But I signed up for Indy, because my friend Cory was going to run her first marathon after having kids. So I had been running long runs with her. And we ran the Hoody Race over the summer together. And then, you know, life happened for her. And she kind of had to pull back on the marathon. And I had already signed up. And I was running this 50k. So I had to keep getting miles in. And then I ran the queen bee and kind of surprised myself, I didn’t look at my watch. Once I went in with no expectations. I was like, oh, okay, I’m like, 15 seconds off my best time. This isn’t bad.

And so I just kept running. And I mean, I remember seeing folks at the expo the night before, and they’re like what your plans were, and I was like, I don’t know. But in my mind, I knew I just didn’t want to tell anybody because everybody’s expectation was that I’m running this 50k. But I don’t care.

And I think for me, that was a little bit like eye opening that I’m a person that I’m not afraid to tell people what my goals are. But I think it also puts a little bit of pressure on me, because I then in the marathon, when you get to that point where you have to decide how bad you want it, I start thinking about the person that’s like, Well, don’t go out too fast, or do you think that’s realistic for a goal? Or oh, my gosh, that’s so fast. I don’t know if you can do that. And then I don’t know that those people aren’t necessarily saying it to get into your head. But it gets to me more than I think I wanted to end it.

And then I think, you know, if I have a bad mile, I’m like, all these people are following me. And they’re seeing me like, hit a wall again. You know, like, I’m proving them right once again. And I’m like, and then I’m like, I really don’t think people are sitting at home, on their couches, following me and being like, Yes, I knew she was going to hit the wall. You know. And so for me, like going into Indy, I was kind of just like, I don’t know, I’m just running, I need to get in a 26 mile run. We’ll see what happens. And I felt good. And I wasn’t really paying attention to my watch.

And I remember seeing Jed at mile 23, he was running out to see his brother. And he jumped in. I was like, I’m gonna run a huge PR. And he’s like, yeah, this is incredible. And he like, tried to hug me as I was running. It was like, you know, it was one of those moments where I was like, people don’t care like people, the people that I care about and they care about me. They don’t care about my finish time because they want me to be happy and they want they’re gonna support me and my goals and whatever I want to do no matter what.

And so it was like it was really satisfying because like nobody ran me in. Nobody met me out there. I joke with Sophia and Emily because they came out of a restaurant and like waved to me as I ran past mile 25, but they were super excited because they’re just like we knew you had this and you just had to get out of your own way. And I think a little bit of it was like me letting other people’s comments or the this person that isn’t really there, that I felt like, I had some other people being put on me. And I think once I was able to let that go, I kind of got out of my own way.

Patrick McGilvray
That’s awesome. There’s a lot to be said about just letting go of some of the expectations are the pressure that we put on ourselves, and just allowing, just being present for what’s happening and be in the moment. And just shutting out all the voices, your own and other people’s, you know. And it sounds like that’s kind of what you did you sort of like, let go of all the expectations and the pressure. And we’re just in the flow and just in the moment and had fun. And look what happened. I mean, it’s amazing results are 3:24, right?

Caroline Keating
Yep. 3:24:02. I’m so mad about, no. No, yeah. But it was funny because like, like, people are like, are you excited? I’m like, I don’t know how I feel. Like, I think I feel satisfied. Because I knew I knew in my mind, I could always do it. And I felt like at what I felt like, when I finally did it, I was going to be able to like prove all these people that didn’t think I could do it, you know, like, prove them wrong.

But then I’m like, who am I proving wrong? Like, nobody cares. Nobody, nobody cares what Caroline Keating runs in a marathon. Zero people care, except for myself. And I’ve gotten to the point where like, that doesn’t define me anymore. I just want to run because it’s fun. And I want to keep challenging myself. And like, as I get older, I want to see like what I can do. And I still have goals and want to do that.

But it’s a little freeing that I’m now no longer like, letting that get to me. My mantra during the race, whenever I like started to struggle, I just kept saying because I can, because I can, because nothing like, you know, I’ve I’ve used like, because she could or things like that. But you know, you talked about it of like, making it first, like so that you own it, and then not having it be a negative. And for me, it was like, well, why am I going to try to do this? Well, because I can do it. I know I can. So yeah, it’s satisfying to be here.

Patrick McGilvray
That is awesome. And I want to ask you this, because I’ve heard some things and I just want to hear your take on this. And so it sounds like just just tell me like, I don’t want to leave you with this question. But I want to know, like, what’s changed about what you believe about yourself? Because it sounds like there was some lack of belief in yourself for a while there. And now I think something. It seems to me like something has shifted. So what is that? Like now?

Caroline Keating
I don’t know. It’s a good question. I think. I think I’ve just like the two closest people in my life, outside of dog in my family, and my dogs are my running partners and friends, Emily and Sophia. And we all come from very different backgrounds. And we all have very different beliefs and political views and everything. But I think what makes us work is that we just like we truly care about each other.

And like who that person is and supporting the person no matter what they’re doing, whether it’s them starting a campervan, business or me, you know, buying my parents old house and renovating it, like we’re gonna get behind you and support you in whatever way is necessary. And I think, you know, they’re both very good runners. Like Sophia is an incredible runner are one of the top runners in the city. Emily is, you know, killing it every single year. Like she’s just a solid badass. She won the first 50k she ever ran.

Patrick McGilvray
That’s amazing. Right?

Caroline Keating
And like, they will run with me. They don’t care what race we run. They’ll run my workout. They’ll come and support me at races. They’ll, you know, skip their running, go out to dinner and grab beers. And they’ve kind of just, I think they’ve helped me realize that whether I’m a Boston qualifier or not, I’m still Caroline, at the end of the day, like nobody likes, they don’t care what my marathon finish time was.

Because I asked them when I, because we all went up to Indy together. And I asked them on the drive back, I was like, did you guys think I would do that? And they’re like, we kind of knew, like, we kind of had this feeling that this was going to be it because you just had a different mindset. But they’re like, but to be completely honest, like, we also thought you could just blow up again.

And so it was a matter of like, if you’re gonna get out of your own way, and let it happen. And it was kind of nice, because, again, like it wasn’t, their reaction wasn’t what I think I envisioned of like, when I finally had a big breakthrough, like, there’d be balloons and champagne and all this celebration, you know, like, I mean, they were super excited.

But it wasn’t like, it didn’t change our relationship. It didn’t change, like, who they thought I was. And I think that has really helped. I think, who you surround yourself with, and what they’re saying to you and what you’re listening to, on a daily basis is super, super important. And I don’t say that to like, say that any of the other people that I’ve run with over the years are not the right people. I think just like where I am in my life right now. They’re, they’re there for me in ways that I need them to be. And they’ve changed, like how I love myself.

Patrick McGilvray
Very well said, By the way, very, very cool. Man, there’s something about you, Caroline, that I’ve always just loved. I think you’re so positive, you’re always smiling. Every time I see you out running or running to you, you’re you’ve got this like, glowing like, presence, you know? And I think just saying that says a lot about who you are, you know what I mean? And I think the people that know you? Like we’ve known these, we’ve known how awesome you are, you know, and we’ve believed in you maybe when you didn’t believe in yourself a little bit. So I’m glad you finally caught up with us.

Caroline Keating
Well, thank you. I don’t know that I would say that. I’m super positive. I try to be outwardly.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, well, it’s you’re doing something right. You’ve got a lot of good things going on. So what is next for you? You mentioned Ultra running?

Caroline Keating
Yeah, um, it’s funny, because they asked me last night if I regret signing up for these races. Well, I’m not so sure. Yeah, so I’ve never I’ve never run on trails. So I started doing that this summer. Emily and Sophia took me out and have slowly been teaching me. Anybody that knows me knows that like, clumsiness is a skill of mine. You know, one of my biggest injuries was running into a telephone pole. There were some medical issues behind that, but it’s an ongoing joke. Now that you’re running, you know, on the trails, there’s trees and routes and other things you have to pay attention to.

Patrick McGilvray
But no telephone poles?

Caroline Keating
No telephone poles and so, so yeah, so I signed up and I ran a couple of races this summer. I ran a topo race at Caesars Creek, and Emily and I were actually like one two for the girls. And we came out of the woods and I didn’t know what she was going to do. But I took off just wanting to beat her. And so I can claim that I beat Emily Bronze in a trail race.

So I won that which was kind of fun. I think there were like six women but it was still, a win’s a win. And then I ran. We ran like a cross country 10k and I ended up winning that too, which was super fun and just different and it kind of took me back to my college days of just like racing and not caring like what your time was just wanting to like race. So that’s what I think I’ve enjoyed most about the trails. But I signed up for the Haas 50k which is near South Bend Indiana on December 28. So I think it’ll be like super warm and really pleasant outside. It’ll probably be really snowy and icy and um, if this weather continues, there will be like water that will have to go through.

Patrick McGilvray
Notoriously wet and cold race.

Caroline Keating
Yeah, so, but I don’t know. It’s kind of the adventure of something different like I was saying before like just challenging yourself to prove that you can do it. So I’m gonna do that and then I’m gonna run a 50 mile race and march and Antelope Canyon in Arizona. So, yeah. So that’ll be different. And then I think my amigos, the three amigos, I think we’re looking at running 100 mile race together sometime in the fall. Because why not? Yeah, why not?

Patrick McGilvray
Because you can.

Caroline Keating
Because I can. And I, I feel this like, pressure of not having to run a marathon. Now that I’ve qualified for Boston. 2021. Doug told me I could sit on the couch and eat potato chips if I wanted to until then. I don’t think that’s not really me. But I don’t see that happening. Yeah, part of me, like really wants to like get out and see how much faster I can run in a marathon. But then the other part of me is like, really looking forward to these new challenges and something different. You know, my, my idol Kara Gousha just ran her 50k, first, 50k last weekend. And so it’s yeah, I’m kind of excited to like, tackle something new.

Patrick McGilvray
Cool. Well, I have a feeling you’re gonna do really well. I hope so. But no pressure, like, just have fun. You know, that was one of the things that really appealed to me about trail running and ultra running was that it was just, I’d took all the pressure off myself and just went out there and had fun. And I still, I love it. And it’s like my preferred I’d rather go run a 50k than a marathon. You know, I mean, it’s longer, it’s harder. But it’s more fun. Like, I just enjoy it more.

Caroline Keating
You know, if you want to get out on the trails, over the next, you know, couple months, just give me a call.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, we’ll do it. We’ll definitely do it. I signed up for the Tahoe Trail marathon half, half marathon, which is again, next week. On December. Oh, wait, that’s like next week?

Caroline Keating
Oh, nice. Yeah. I don’t know if that was smart. But I signed up for it to get on trails. So I’m forcing myself to do it.

Patrick McGilvray
Go do this, pace yourself. You know. It’s, well, it is a race. So you can go out there and do whatever you want. But just have fun. And it’ll be awesome.

Caroline Keating
Yeah, the goal is to have fun. It’s a great event. Awesome.

Patrick McGilvray
Well, really proud of you and your accomplishments. It’s like, just so awesome to see you nail this, awesome. Boston time? How many minutes? Like what’s the cut off for your age group right now? So you ran at 3:24, what was the cut off?

Caroline Keating
So I’ll be 35 in February. So my cutoff is two or 3:35. Okay, almost 11 minutes.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, you crushed it. So yeah. This shouldn’t be a problem getting in this time.

Caroline Keating
Yeah if I get together rejection letter again, like I? Yeah, I’ll have some words. We’re gonna have

Patrick McGilvray
another conversation.

Caroline Keating
Yeah, exactly. But I think I think the, the, the thing I’d want all of your listeners to take away from this. And the reason that like, I’m so active on social media, and like sharing that part of my story is because I think on social media, you always see all the positives, like, it’s easy. And I qualified, and I ran a PR and I ran another PR, and I did this, and I did that.

And I think, you know, Carrie Lee actually texted me after I qualified for Indy a couple of weeks ago, and she just said something around the lines of like, you set a goal for yourself. And you know, you can do it. And then every time you fail, you just continue to keep getting back up. Because it’ll happen. It may take you more times than it takes your friend or the person that you follow on social media, but it’s so worth it when it does. So for any of your listeners that are wanting to like, have that breakthrough and feeling like it’s time to give up. Don’t take a lesson from every failure, and it’ll all come together one day.

Patrick McGilvray
Awesome. Very good advice. Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Caroline for taking some time and chatting with me today. Where can where can people find you and like, reach out and say hey?

Caroline Keating
I’m on Instagram which is probably my preferred social media platform. And my handle is @currentmile with no spaces. And I picked currentmile because I’m trying to pay attention to like living in the moment and the mile that you’re in. So being in the current mile,

Patrick McGilvray
Run the mile you’re in. I love it, run the mile. You’re awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks, Caroline. We’re gonna get you back here after Boston to see how that went. For you can’t wait. But thanks again for the conversation today is really awesome.

Caroline Keating
Yeah, thank you.

Patrick McGilvray
Did you know that most runners fail to reach their goals? It’s not because of lack of training, lack of desire, whether it’s running faster or running farther, I believe most runners just haven’t developed the mental toughness they need to get them across the finish line. That’s why I created a step by step training called How to Build Mental Toughness and Become A Badass Runner. I want to show you how to train your mind so you can tough it out when the going gets tough. And the best part, this comprehensive training is yours absolutely free. To get it right now just go to innerfiretribe.com/badass and get started today.